I have government sponsored healthcare as a retired military veteran. I go to a doctor of my choice and any meds I need are approved by him. Although this care is an earned benefit, I have no reason to abuse it (where is the moral hazard?) In fact I reject any unnecessary costs because ultimately I am a taxpayer too. Although there are premiums involved , I believe them to be modest and necessary. Medicare premiums should be viewed constantly for sufficiency and for cost-cutting, as should Social Security and any other government sponsored plan. But when they require increased payroll taxes or premiums, or caps or age related adjustments, you seem to scream “no taxes” and your politicians quake at your wrath: where do you get the free lunch attitude? Where is the capitalist pay-as-you-go for what you get?? You remind me of those who wanted to irresponsibly privatize Soc.Sec. before last years financial disaster. Haven’t heard much about that lately!!

Personally, I doubt if ANY responsible healthcare plan can be devised in this country. By the time all the political compromises are made in deference (earmarks vs. re-election campaign funds) to the insurance & phamaceutical companys, and reaction to fear-mongering and skewed ideology, there will evolve the worst mess of a plan from all the greed and incompetance from our elected commercial representatives. Then you can say “mission accomplished” and “I told you so”. You will have missed an opportunity to promote a plan that suits your needs and that of your neighbors. Too bad. But the miscreants will be smiling like the idiots that they are.

The reason we need to give some money isn’t to make things unfair, but to allow the poor to compete. We want to open the opportunity for them to compete in this world. This spurs production as more people are able to start business that don’t automatically collapse as soon as that theif walmart comes to town.

Find some evidence man isn’t good. Why do we do so much good? How can man not be good and yet so many voted for Obama? People are putting aside their racism for the goodness thats in their hearts.

Don’t even get me started on liberty. You know that “there’s no rich man on death row.” The rich can get away w/ murder (literally) b/c they can afford some pricy lawyers, whereas the poor are screwed. The rich buy off politicians and have laws stacked in their favor so they can further oppress the poor.

Not everyone can pursue happiness with the odds stacked against them as the conservative desires for the poor.

No longer will we complain about 20 minute waits in the waiting room we will now wait weeks to even see if we can get the chance to complain about those 20 minute waits

I see that I have struck a nerve with you, as you have resorted to personal attacks instead of logic.

Nonetheless, as seen in Matt’s latest article “Casey at the Bat,” Americans were granted three basic rights: Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. You’ll note that this list does not include healthcare, wealth and prosperity. The government, and this nation, were never intended to guarantee those items. If any citizen is looking for those things from their government, he or she has chosen the wrong nation to call home. In fact, there are thousands of people waiting to gain citizenship- many of whom are coming from nations whose governments have sufficiently failed them by attempting to guarantee these items we are discussing here. My suggestion? Move aside, and let someone who so desparately wants to be a part of the good that we have established take up residence here instead.

Please don’t flatter yourself with your “supreme logic.” Your posts are a hodge podge of straw men, red herrings, false dilemma’s and many other logical fallacies.

I’m not going to defend Lynn’s post, but the assertion that conservatives look at the wealth of a person where as liberals do not is asinine.

Looking at the material one owns is the basis for the entire liberal philosophy. Nearly every Liberal issue is about giving money or material to some grievance group. This is what Obama is talking about when he says “economic justice.” They don’t care about true Justice, they want to look at everyone’s wealth before deciding what justice is.

Conservatism tries to level the playing field by getting the government out of the way so individuals can go as far as they want. Liberals seek to “level the playing field” by taking from one to give to another.

Also, mankind is not inherently good.

I think the word you are looking for is “intact.”

Your summation of Obama’s health plan is grossly over simplified. You are completely ignoring the following:

1. The plan sets up a new program or in effect broadens the scope of Medicare and Medicaid, both of which are going bankrupt and are unsustainable. Making them larger or creating another cousin will only quicken the process.

2. The plan ignores the fact that Medicare and Medicaid have been taking money from the general revenue fund for years. They cannot exist on the paycheck deductions alone.

3. The plan also ignores how Medicare and Medicaid drive up the cost of regular insurance. They don’t have a real pricing model set up; they just tell the doctors what they will pay. Which shoves cost onto the private sector.

4. The plan creates a disincentive for employers to offer private healthcare. By taxing employers who’s health plan doesn’t meet the arbitrary standard set up by the government, it will encourage employers to drop coverage forcing people into the government’s plan.

5. The plan ignores every example of universal healthcare available to look at. Please read any honest article about Britain, Canada, and France etc. for more info.